El-P on the state of indie-rap today.

Definitve Jux label head and recording artist El-P talks to us about his latest album, the state of the music industry today, the Def Jux label and the collabrative spirit of the indie-rap community.

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CraveOnline: Your latest album, “I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead”, is an incredible album. How long did it take to complete such a cohesive album with so many unexpected collaborations?

El-P: I would say that if you compressed all the time I worked on it into one continuous stretch, it was probably about two years.

CraveOnline:: Wasn’t there about five years in-between albums?

El-P: Yeah. Well there were a lot of other projects that I did between now and then. I worked on different albums, did a film score, a bunch of touring, a lot of label stuff, production for people on my label, a bunch of remixes… So at the time there just wasn’t a lot of time to be working on my own album.

CraveOnline: At the end of the recording process, were there a lot of good tracks that didn’t make it onto the album?

El-P: I have a few left over that are still being worked on, and will probably make it to an album sometime next year. It was a pretty productive year for me. I kinda just tried to narrow it down and make the tightest record possible. But yeah, I got a lot more done than the record that I presented to the world.


Noted Flyentologist El-P at a very exclusive party for one.

CraveOnline:: Much of your album has a bleak, futuristic feel to it. Where does that influence come from?

El-P: Probably that I feel like there’s a bleak future on the horizon. I live in New York City, you know, and it seems like the reality of the world right now. I cant help it, its just kinda my perspective. And I think it’s a style that that fits the situation. I’ve been leaning towards that with the films I like and the books I read… And yeah, it’s just kinda my voice, you know, it’s the way that I see things and the way that I write.

CraveOnline: Are you going to be releasing an album with the Weathermen any time soon?

El-P: Yeah we’re definitely counting on it.

CraveOnline: What kind of style can fans expect from the collaboration? Will it sound anything like your own album?

El-P: I have no idea what the sound’s gonna be. I’m the only one that’s gonna make albums that sound like my album, and I don’t think I’m gonna be the sole producer of the Weatherman album by any means. I’ll probably contribute to it but I think the other producers in the camp will probably contribute a lot to it as well. I think the way I approach my music is at this point pretty unique to what I do, and I think it doesn’t always work in the same way when you’re doing the same thing for everyone that you work with.

CraveOnline: What’s your opinion of mainstream hip-hop today?

El-P: Why does that matter?

CraveOnline: People want to know how Def Jux is different. What separates “indie rap” from the mainstream, essentially?

El-P: ‘Cause it’s an independent label? Haha, I mean c’mon dude I’m not a fucking journalist. I don’t fuckin’ make those names up. I just make music. I mean it’s an independent label you know, that’s the only way that it’s called indie rap. We don’t make pop music. We know that we’re not getting played on the radio or on TV so we don’t make music geared towards that. So therefore, it’s a different sound because when you’re not trying to make a commercial hit or something that will work on the radio, you’re making a sound that will be very different than mainstream music.

CraveOnline: So would you say that this outlook affords you a little more creative freedom then some?

El-P: Well it’s not about being afforded freedom, it’s about… we take our own freedom. We do the music that we want to do. I mean yes, it is free in knowing that there is basically no possibility for pop success,’ cause then you don’t have to think in those terms. I think that that’s the real difference. And I don’t think that one is necessarily better than the other. I think that the two need to coexist. You need balance. For one to matter, I think the other needs to be there. For me, I don’t know about you, music is not about politics or action. It doesn’t define who I am. It’s about the mood that I’m in. And when I’m in one mood I want to listen to one thing and when I’m in another I want to listen to something else. In the same way that I don’t want to always watch the same movie over and over again. I think that it’s a mistake for people to think that one perspective is the superior one. It’s just the truth. We don’t make music for pop radio, so we probably have a little bit different angle that we approach from. And I think it speaks to people that are looking for something besides radio songs.

You can't buy this kind of advertising, people. Well, technically you could, but in this case, they probably didn't.

CraveOnline: Don’t you think it’s possible that a time may come when your type of music comes to be the social norm?

El-P: I think that we’ve been making slow progress over the years, and I think that we have been popping up in places that a lot of people haven’t been expecting. I think that it’s because we’ve been consistent in putting out what I think is quality music, and people realize that there’s a need for that. There’s a need for good albums, with artists that have something to say. And it’s been an uphill battle, but we have been able to come in to the consciousness a little bit more, and we’re selling more records. I’d never say it’s impossible, I just think don’t think it’s probable that you would ever find us in the same position that some of the mainstream artists are in today. But as the industry changes, all those things are being redefined, you know? All of the sudden, our level of success is coming closer to the level of success of a lot of so called mainstream artists. Whereas people were going platinum in their first week five years ago, now they’re doing like 185,000, and that’s a number one album, you know. So the margins are getting closer to where we’re currently at. I could see us, because of the way the whole thing’s folding in on itself, if we stick around, we could end up being pretty close, you know, much closer than we ever were to what people perceive as sort of the top tier of the music industry. But it’s still a matter of putting out great records, and taking the right amount of time to do it, you know?

CraveOnline: Has Def Jux been hit as hard as the major labels by the changes in traditional business practices in the recording industry, particularly the downloading?

El-P: Well, yes and no. I mean, yes, because losing 10,000 sales off of downloads is devastating to us, you know, because on our top records we’re selling 100,000 copies. And that’s the total of the whole life of the record, you know. But no, because we’re not spending as much money as the majors, and also we’ve always embraced the technology and the community. I think that our music isn’t disposable. We’re creating records and artists that the kids feel like passionate about so, whereas for decades you used to get tricked into buying records because they had a hot single, and then you felt ripped off, because they didn’t put any time into their record. Now kids don’t want to do that, they’re too smart, they’re not gonna do that. And now the major labels are hurting because they haven’t spent a lot of time creating a culture of music. They’ve spent a lot of time creating a culture of money, and modeling the music after what they think and know works in the marketplace so… Once you take that sort of surprise factor away, once you take away that ability to just write a check and have something do really well, then you’re only left with the quality of music that you’re putting out. And for us, I think that it’s always been about inspiring kids to care about us. And the only way that we can do that is to really put our hearts into our music. I feel pretty genuinely that kids want to support music that they care about. But the average smart kid doesn’t have the fuckin’ money to support the music that they don’t care about. So, you know, it’s kind of silly to me, how sort of lost the recording industry of America is. You know, like when they look at kids who are downloading as criminals, it’s like “well, who’s the real criminal?” It’s like, maybe the false advertising they’re selling is criminal. You’re tricking kids into spending money that they don’t have, and you don’t care. You don’t care about music, so… I say more power to ‘em. It’s a self-policing thing now. Kids today, they’re not having it. Now they’re in control. They’re not gonna buy your fuckin’ record if the shit sucks. And yes, they’re not gonna buy as much as they used to, anyway, regardless. So they have to figure out different things to do and the industry is gonna change, and the way that people do business is changing already, and there are gonna be a lot of different models that pop up. There’s gonna be a lot of sort of stumbling around and missteps and a lot of creativity is going to have to be put into it. And eventually it’ll be a hybrid of all these different ideas, but it’s damn sure not gonna be what it used to be. But I’m okay with it. It’s like, I think that if you put your heart into something, you put your heart into the music and you can inspire kids to support you.

El-P enjoying the freezing cold New York winter. Or not.

CraveOnline: One thing that I’ve noticed about the smaller labels is that the quality of the performance is generally better. The artists I saw at the “Paid Dues” show (a festival collaboration between Def Jux and Rhymesayers) more or less restored my faith in hip-hop as a performance medium.

El-P: Basically what I think separates Rhymesayers and Def Jux and Living Legends, what I pretty much consider to be the cream of the crop of the indie rap world, from a lot of other groups and people, not all of them, but a lot of them, is that cats are really serious about their performances, you know? And we’re professionals. We rehearse and we’re real about it. You know we have the same understandings and disappointments with a lot of shows as everyone else and we’re trying to break through that. We’re all trying to show that we deserve to be on stage with bigger acts, and that we deserve to be taken seriously as live acts. And that can’t be just walking around on the stage and just nonchalantly performing, you know? But I think that everyone that’s down kinda pushes each other to really give the best show possible. And everyone has different approaches, but I’m pretty proud of all the guys in my scene, because we’re really turning into a real draw, you know?

CraveOnline: Does the spirit of camaraderie ever find itself at odds with the spirit of competition?

El-P: It’s definitely competition, but it’s friendly competition. The fact is we all realize none of us are shit without each other. We can all make great records and we can make some noise on our own, but as a scene, and as a community, we’re much more powerful. We’re just not important enough, in the collective, unless we’re all banded together. And all these cats in this scene have always been cool with each other just based off friendships alone… This just kind of developed later, as a response to that. And all these different crews in these different areas, Living Legends crew, Def Jux crew, Rhymesayers crew, they all started in their own way in their own areas, and the connections were made long before any of the labels were really solid. Yeah, it’s a real camaraderie. And it’s a competition. Of course motherfuckers are trying to do as well, if not better that the other one, you know, but it’s not cutthroat competition. It’s definitely friendly.

CraveOnline: Now that Murs has moved over to Warner, is there any chance that we’ll see another collaborative tour like “Paid Dues”? I know that he had a lot to do with putting that show together…

El-P: Murs is amazing, Murs is genuinely friends with all of us and he has worked with all of us. Murs was the natural glue, and he’s also just a fuckin’ good dude that we all genuinely love, and it took a dude like Murs to make what was really obvious happen. And I don’t think we have to do it without him. I think that Murs is an integral part, and he’s kind of become a wonderful delegate for the whole scene. It’s all family.

El-P and Murs doing their finest "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" impressions.

CraveOnline: I noticed that you recently signed Del The Funky Homosapien to your label. What can you tell us about that?

El-P: Well, we signed him because he had an album, and I’ve been friends with him for years, and they were looking for distribution for their record. They already had the record, and I was like “yeah, hell yeah let’s do it”. So, it’s basically as simple as that. It’s not really like a traditional Def Jux album in that it’s all A&R’d by me and there’s a lot of Def Jux collaborations. It’s really a Del record, you know, it’s the same record he had before he even talked to us. It’s really his project. But I think that he’s a legend and a really good dude, an amazing performer, so it was just natural.

CraveOnline: Are there any plans to work together on some new material?

El-P: Me and him are in talks about doing a couple of different projects together. And I’m gonna be doing a remix or two for his new record, and we’re going to get some Def Jux artists to do some stuff with him but that’s all up in the air right now. Right now we’re just getting ready to start the campaign on his new record.

CraveOnline: What’s next for El-P and Def Jux?

El-P: Well in the next couple of months, we’re dropping the Del record in late January or early February, maybe there’s a date for that already, I’m not sure. And I’m working on a follow-up EP to my record, which will be putting together some of the ideas that I’ve been working on that didn’t make the record, and also some remixes and some instrumental stuff. And obviously Cage is working on his record for next year. And we’ve got a couple of surprises, people that we’re in talks with about releasing their records. But I can’t really talk about that right now. But it’s gonna be a good year, I think we’re in a good place and I think people are pretty amped about the label. So we’re gonna just keep going, keep putting out great music.

CraveOnline: Is there anything new out right now that our readers should check out?

El-P: Well the Rob Sonic and the Hanger 18 records just came out. If you haven’t heard a Rob Sonic record, he’s ridiculously brilliant and amazing at what he does and I think that it tends to fly under the radar because he’s just not as well known as some of the other artists on the label you know? But that shit is called “Sabotage Gigante” and it’s amazing. And that’s something people should definitely look for. He murdered it. Anyone that hears it is blown away by it and so we just want more people to try it.

Download El-P's "Flyentology (Cassettes Won't Listen Remix)"